I’ve been sober for forty years. In the beginning I was deeply involved in both AA and NA and these programs helped me greatly. Eventually, with a stable life and having incorporated the Steps into my daily living I found myself not needing to attend anymore. A few years ago I went out to dinner with my cousin who is in recovery and his program friend. The program guy asked how many meetings I now go to. I told him none and he was aghast and told me I’d relapse for sure being a dry drunk and all. It didn’t matter that I’d been sober for 35 years without a meeting and was as sober as he was! Kinda ruined the night!
I bet it did. (also, what a dick!) That's a perfect example of why I hate the term. Yes, recovery is about more than just not drinking; what that "more" consists of is likely to be different for everyone, is intensely personal, and is not something others should be the arbiter of!
Katie: the term is one of the unfortunate byproducts of some people in the program. I was taught to “take your own inventory.” It is not up to me to judge other people’s recovery. This guy didn’t know me at all so how could he judge?
Sober 39 years. Times I went, times I didn’t. I go to one meeting a week as a rule now.
We started it during the pandemic, when everything went to Zoom. We meet outside in a park. I call it “Six women, six feet apart” because that was how we started out. Now there is a rotation of 10-12. Most of the folks in the group go to more meetings than I do. I try not to judge myself, but I do! Oh well, one day at a time. Live and let live. Keep it simple.
I also didn’t like “dry drunk” for the reason you’ve mentioned but I’m okay with “emotional sobriety” as a similar thing. Like, it’s not enough to be physically/chemically sober, you also have to be the rider on the elephant looking out for the mice and the squirrels. This is a much more moment to moment/vigilance based thing though and less of a state of being.
I’m also not currently attending meetings but that is because I’ve been in therapy and my urge to drink is basically zero these days and I have a great support network for sober friends.
Everyone has to find their own path and find what works for them through honest reflection and hard work.
Yeah “emotional sobriety” doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I just find it very offensive to refer to anyone who has stopped drinking as any kind of “drunk”
The term “dry drunk” has been attributed to Harry M. Tiebout (1896 – 1966) was an American psychiatrist who promoted the AA approach to the public, patients and fellow professionals. He was interested in this concept as part of his broader work in understanding addiction and recovery, especially regarding the spiritual and psychological transformations that AA emphasized for long-term sobriety.
Thank you! I know about Tiebout, but I didn’t know that he coined the term. That’s hugely helpful. Do you know where I can find the source/where he first wrote or spoke it?
TIEBOUT HM. The act of surrender in the therapeutic process with special reference to alcoholism. Q J Stud Alcohol. 1949 Jun;10(1):48-58. PMID: 18151145.
So good! I’m glad to see the new post up, meaning the power came back on (I’m in the PNW and I lost electricity for 9 hours. Many people are still with no lights). Wholeheartedly I agree that this pop culture term has no real meaning, and often does more harm than good; your line “most of the time, however, the term isn’t used self-referentially. Most of the time, it’s used to pass judgment on others’ sobriety.” Yes! As someone who has a similar sad girl trifecta of trauma, anxiety, and depression, starting as a kid I used substances to self annihilate, numb out, to self comfort, and to escape the daily pain. For me, my past using seemed to be the tip of the iceberg in terms of finding out how I may heal after I quit (tho each person has their own unique path with this experience). In my early years, I’ve had a lot of bad things happen; so I don’t think it’s my place to pass judgement or moralize on right or wrong. Judging is hurtful and moralizing can stir up a sense of shame, I think. The 1st part, the quitting alcohol and kicking, is the hardest thing to do in the world. It’s no small thing to quit, an act of bravery nothing short of a miracle. This is why I enjoy reading your thoughtful and empathetic newsletter; I like the way your writing style stays open, tolerant, and non-judgmental to cultivate a safe environment for some of the most vulnerable, stigmatized people in our damaged society. Thank you for setting the record straight. The Web-me line you wrote made me laugh out loud. I’m grateful for your compassionate, supportive, and brilliant writing.
This is an incredibly kind and thoughtful response, thank you Jessica! And yes, very happy to report that power is back.
It sounds like we used substances very similarly. Quitting drink is often the hardest part, but it doesn’t mean if you’re still struggling after you quit, you’re doing something wrong. It’s all an individual process.
You’re so welcome. I wish alcohol wasn’t shoved in our faces every 5 seconds. I drink but honestly I think to myself “what’s the point?” And I use cognitive behavioral therapy to reframe it. Big help for me.
Oh and this is my favorite alcohol non-alcohol song (honestly I listen to this so much that when I am at a bar, and everyone is order a drink, this song starts playing)
Great post! In my early recovery back in the 90's, the term dry drunk was used mainly to call people out on things that weren't approved by the group or the support network. As a clinician, I've come to understand dry drunk syndrome as a sign of post-acute withdrawal, or co-occurring disorders that become apparent after a period of sobriety. Even then, post-acute withdrawal is not in the DSM-5, mostly because there's a lack of consensus on symptoms, presentation, and length of duration. I love that you wrote about this!
Huh, I'm glad I haven't come across this term in the wild before, it would probably infuriate me. Thanks for the explanation though! I think the most frustrating part for me is the radical simplification of what's probably a very complex thing. How bout "hey that person managed to quit drinking, which is awesome, but looks like they're still got a lot of hard things going on," instead of the othering and stigmatizing "dry drunk" seems to imply.
I also continue to find the idea that without AA you're doomed to relapse to be incredibly patronizing. I don't doubt it helps people, but to imply it's the only way (without anything beyond one-off anecdotal evidence) feels gate-keepish and dangerous.
Anyway, just generally agreeing with you! Thanks for the thoughtful piece!
Thank you for an excellent essay. I am both a physician and an alcoholic, sober about 20 months. I also could not find any medical evidence for “dry drunk”. As you noted the symptoms are mostly those of recent recovery from alcohol abuse and/or someone who refuses to take the introspective steps needed to address the underlying personality and or mental health issues. You mention that you are no longer actively engaged with AA. I have repeatedly heard in AA meetings that this is perilous and frequently results in relapse. The consensus seems to be that participation in AA is the only way to maintain recovery/sobriety. What is your take on this?
Congratulations on 20 months!! I was a very regular AA attendee for about 5 years and I think there are many brilliant things about the program. I don’t think I would have made it through those early years without it. But I think nothing is true for EVERYONE in recovery. Some people will be best served by going to AA for the rest of their days. Others will find the program alienating. I’m somewhere in the middle, I’m grateful that it’s always there, but my needs are different now than they were a decade ago. For me, it’s just important to keep talking about recovery and trying to connect with others newly or trying to get sober, regardless of the forum.
I find it now being called PAWS, or post-acute withdrawal syndrome. For the same reasons you cite, I find the concept unhelpful. It’s fundamentally a lack of skills to cope with life on life’s terms coupled with any pre-existing mental health conditions now unmasked without the chemical tornado of alcohol or other drugs. It doesn’t need a whole syndrome to be effectively addressed and treated…healthful diet, consistent exercise, sufficient quality sleep, hydration, minimize processed food, sugar, and caffeine, engage in social activities, hobbies, and meditation…all the things that make up a good program of recovery will help.
“Alcohol is but a symptom of our disease “ is from the Big Book. We learn to deal with life on life’s terms and this requires hard truths and humility. A dry drunk is the disease without alcohol. Not an excuse for bad behavior but an opportunity for change.
Another example of culture attributed to the 12 step program while it most likely came from the treatment industry. A lot of stuff originated in the treatment industry boom of the eighties. Many sent to AA from treatment bring terms learned in tx with them. Just speculating. In AA I’ve heard “if it’s not in the book disregard it.” I agree that it’s inappropriate at best and harmful to call others a “dry drunk.” And especially if aimed at those outside the program as tho being a member of AA makes one immune or superior. As to “the book” there’s one thing in it I disregard - that part where they challenge those uncertain they are alcoholic to step up to the nearest bar and try drinking for the next year. But yeah calling people dry drunks is not helpful. Recovery is about so much more than not drinking; I agree “the bottle is but a symbol.” More will be revealed and it’s also ok to just not drink if it works for you!
The concept is definitely pre-AA and I haven’t found any evidence that the term originates from AA but the librarian in me is desperate to find the primary source/first instance use of the phrase.
I’ve been sober for forty years. In the beginning I was deeply involved in both AA and NA and these programs helped me greatly. Eventually, with a stable life and having incorporated the Steps into my daily living I found myself not needing to attend anymore. A few years ago I went out to dinner with my cousin who is in recovery and his program friend. The program guy asked how many meetings I now go to. I told him none and he was aghast and told me I’d relapse for sure being a dry drunk and all. It didn’t matter that I’d been sober for 35 years without a meeting and was as sober as he was! Kinda ruined the night!
I bet it did. (also, what a dick!) That's a perfect example of why I hate the term. Yes, recovery is about more than just not drinking; what that "more" consists of is likely to be different for everyone, is intensely personal, and is not something others should be the arbiter of!
Katie: the term is one of the unfortunate byproducts of some people in the program. I was taught to “take your own inventory.” It is not up to me to judge other people’s recovery. This guy didn’t know me at all so how could he judge?
agreed! i’m glad you were able to see it that way.
Sober 39 years. Times I went, times I didn’t. I go to one meeting a week as a rule now.
We started it during the pandemic, when everything went to Zoom. We meet outside in a park. I call it “Six women, six feet apart” because that was how we started out. Now there is a rotation of 10-12. Most of the folks in the group go to more meetings than I do. I try not to judge myself, but I do! Oh well, one day at a time. Live and let live. Keep it simple.
The slogans that saved me!
I find one major factor in recovery is to establish community. Meeting is one we do this but it’s not the only way! Keep going, you’re doing great!
I also didn’t like “dry drunk” for the reason you’ve mentioned but I’m okay with “emotional sobriety” as a similar thing. Like, it’s not enough to be physically/chemically sober, you also have to be the rider on the elephant looking out for the mice and the squirrels. This is a much more moment to moment/vigilance based thing though and less of a state of being.
I’m also not currently attending meetings but that is because I’ve been in therapy and my urge to drink is basically zero these days and I have a great support network for sober friends.
Everyone has to find their own path and find what works for them through honest reflection and hard work.
Yeah “emotional sobriety” doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I just find it very offensive to refer to anyone who has stopped drinking as any kind of “drunk”
The term “dry drunk” has been attributed to Harry M. Tiebout (1896 – 1966) was an American psychiatrist who promoted the AA approach to the public, patients and fellow professionals. He was interested in this concept as part of his broader work in understanding addiction and recovery, especially regarding the spiritual and psychological transformations that AA emphasized for long-term sobriety.
Thank you! I know about Tiebout, but I didn’t know that he coined the term. That’s hugely helpful. Do you know where I can find the source/where he first wrote or spoke it?
TIEBOUT HM. The act of surrender in the therapeutic process with special reference to alcoholism. Q J Stud Alcohol. 1949 Jun;10(1):48-58. PMID: 18151145.
That’s definitely enough for me to go on to try to confirm. Thank you!
You are my HERO, I’ve been dying to track this down!
Not sure if he literally coined the term, but he does use it, at least according to my sources.
So good! I’m glad to see the new post up, meaning the power came back on (I’m in the PNW and I lost electricity for 9 hours. Many people are still with no lights). Wholeheartedly I agree that this pop culture term has no real meaning, and often does more harm than good; your line “most of the time, however, the term isn’t used self-referentially. Most of the time, it’s used to pass judgment on others’ sobriety.” Yes! As someone who has a similar sad girl trifecta of trauma, anxiety, and depression, starting as a kid I used substances to self annihilate, numb out, to self comfort, and to escape the daily pain. For me, my past using seemed to be the tip of the iceberg in terms of finding out how I may heal after I quit (tho each person has their own unique path with this experience). In my early years, I’ve had a lot of bad things happen; so I don’t think it’s my place to pass judgement or moralize on right or wrong. Judging is hurtful and moralizing can stir up a sense of shame, I think. The 1st part, the quitting alcohol and kicking, is the hardest thing to do in the world. It’s no small thing to quit, an act of bravery nothing short of a miracle. This is why I enjoy reading your thoughtful and empathetic newsletter; I like the way your writing style stays open, tolerant, and non-judgmental to cultivate a safe environment for some of the most vulnerable, stigmatized people in our damaged society. Thank you for setting the record straight. The Web-me line you wrote made me laugh out loud. I’m grateful for your compassionate, supportive, and brilliant writing.
This is an incredibly kind and thoughtful response, thank you Jessica! And yes, very happy to report that power is back.
It sounds like we used substances very similarly. Quitting drink is often the hardest part, but it doesn’t mean if you’re still struggling after you quit, you’re doing something wrong. It’s all an individual process.
Fantastic read
thank you!
You’re so welcome. I wish alcohol wasn’t shoved in our faces every 5 seconds. I drink but honestly I think to myself “what’s the point?” And I use cognitive behavioral therapy to reframe it. Big help for me.
Oh and this is my favorite alcohol non-alcohol song (honestly I listen to this so much that when I am at a bar, and everyone is order a drink, this song starts playing)
https://youtu.be/ULYM1pds55w?si=iIJL1UEmgsr-XizU
Yes, CBT can be hugely helpful.
I’ve never heard that song before—it’s great, thanks for sharing!
Great post! In my early recovery back in the 90's, the term dry drunk was used mainly to call people out on things that weren't approved by the group or the support network. As a clinician, I've come to understand dry drunk syndrome as a sign of post-acute withdrawal, or co-occurring disorders that become apparent after a period of sobriety. Even then, post-acute withdrawal is not in the DSM-5, mostly because there's a lack of consensus on symptoms, presentation, and length of duration. I love that you wrote about this!
Huh, I'm glad I haven't come across this term in the wild before, it would probably infuriate me. Thanks for the explanation though! I think the most frustrating part for me is the radical simplification of what's probably a very complex thing. How bout "hey that person managed to quit drinking, which is awesome, but looks like they're still got a lot of hard things going on," instead of the othering and stigmatizing "dry drunk" seems to imply.
I also continue to find the idea that without AA you're doomed to relapse to be incredibly patronizing. I don't doubt it helps people, but to imply it's the only way (without anything beyond one-off anecdotal evidence) feels gate-keepish and dangerous.
Anyway, just generally agreeing with you! Thanks for the thoughtful piece!
Exactly! We have to be more inclusive of different paths to recovery.
Thank you for an excellent essay. I am both a physician and an alcoholic, sober about 20 months. I also could not find any medical evidence for “dry drunk”. As you noted the symptoms are mostly those of recent recovery from alcohol abuse and/or someone who refuses to take the introspective steps needed to address the underlying personality and or mental health issues. You mention that you are no longer actively engaged with AA. I have repeatedly heard in AA meetings that this is perilous and frequently results in relapse. The consensus seems to be that participation in AA is the only way to maintain recovery/sobriety. What is your take on this?
Congratulations on 20 months!! I was a very regular AA attendee for about 5 years and I think there are many brilliant things about the program. I don’t think I would have made it through those early years without it. But I think nothing is true for EVERYONE in recovery. Some people will be best served by going to AA for the rest of their days. Others will find the program alienating. I’m somewhere in the middle, I’m grateful that it’s always there, but my needs are different now than they were a decade ago. For me, it’s just important to keep talking about recovery and trying to connect with others newly or trying to get sober, regardless of the forum.
I find it now being called PAWS, or post-acute withdrawal syndrome. For the same reasons you cite, I find the concept unhelpful. It’s fundamentally a lack of skills to cope with life on life’s terms coupled with any pre-existing mental health conditions now unmasked without the chemical tornado of alcohol or other drugs. It doesn’t need a whole syndrome to be effectively addressed and treated…healthful diet, consistent exercise, sufficient quality sleep, hydration, minimize processed food, sugar, and caffeine, engage in social activities, hobbies, and meditation…all the things that make up a good program of recovery will help.
“Alcohol is but a symptom of our disease “ is from the Big Book. We learn to deal with life on life’s terms and this requires hard truths and humility. A dry drunk is the disease without alcohol. Not an excuse for bad behavior but an opportunity for change.
I never was much of a drinker and the few times I’ve gotten drunk I hated it.
Yet, naturally sober (no particular virtue attaches to that), I still needed a 12-step program.
Another example of culture attributed to the 12 step program while it most likely came from the treatment industry. A lot of stuff originated in the treatment industry boom of the eighties. Many sent to AA from treatment bring terms learned in tx with them. Just speculating. In AA I’ve heard “if it’s not in the book disregard it.” I agree that it’s inappropriate at best and harmful to call others a “dry drunk.” And especially if aimed at those outside the program as tho being a member of AA makes one immune or superior. As to “the book” there’s one thing in it I disregard - that part where they challenge those uncertain they are alcoholic to step up to the nearest bar and try drinking for the next year. But yeah calling people dry drunks is not helpful. Recovery is about so much more than not drinking; I agree “the bottle is but a symbol.” More will be revealed and it’s also ok to just not drink if it works for you!
The concept is definitely pre-AA and I haven’t found any evidence that the term originates from AA but the librarian in me is desperate to find the primary source/first instance use of the phrase.
Have you looked through issues of the AA grapevine? The term is related to the "restless, irritable, discontent" phrase of the Big Book
i have, and i know the concept is described in the BB, but being a bit of a word nerd, I'm more interested in the first use of that specific term.
That's awesome. I'd like to help, so if I find a primary source you'll be the first to know!
thank you so much!
This is such a good piece. It’s helped me to find clarity around why I’ve always despised this phrase, too.